tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post5268407234682556941..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Saturday PuzzlerBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger172125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-947462487802160202017-04-02T17:04:44.535-07:002017-04-02T17:04:44.535-07:00Maybe their little Spring didn't look like bei...Maybe their little Spring didn't look like being murderous enough.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-47550092990549751562017-04-02T16:46:09.367-07:002017-04-02T16:46:09.367-07:00Skipper,
Please notice I wrote it went unnoticed ...Skipper,<br /><br />Please notice I wrote it went unnoticed for the US (as opposed to in the US).<br /><br />Poor people of Bahrain. They must be, to this day, asking why they didn't deserve a few USAF jets crossing their skies to grant them those blessed pro-democracy measures the Lybians were entitled to. They can't figure out what went wrong with their little Spring...Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-51348771237684359002017-04-02T16:04:45.952-07:002017-04-02T16:04:45.952-07:00Yeah, but now we are for it, or at least our neona...<i>Yeah, but now we are for it, or at least our neonazi president is. Egypt, too.</i><br /><br />We are? Prove it.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-5184233627158670862017-04-02T13:20:16.676-07:002017-04-02T13:20:16.676-07:00Our neonazi president is in Tahiti enjoying the fr...Our neonazi president is in Tahiti enjoying the fruits (pun intended) of his labor.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-26460873197331385502017-04-02T12:17:16.493-07:002017-04-02T12:17:16.493-07:00Yeah, but now we are for it, or at least our neona...Yeah, but now we are for it, or at least our neonazi president is. Egypt, too.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-50960189139603329252017-04-02T03:20:19.716-07:002017-04-02T03:20:19.716-07:00Clovis, Harry's guttural utterances notwithsta...Clovis, Harry's guttural utterances notwithstanding, in the US Bahrain's crack down went very much noticed. <br /><br />Google [nyt bahrain crackdown]. <br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-51274747846126599922017-04-02T00:40:31.868-07:002017-04-02T00:40:31.868-07:00Harry,
The last couple of months?
Bahrain's ...Harry,<br /><br />The last couple of months?<br /><br />Bahrain's crackdown on their Arab Spring folks in 2011 went down unnoticed for the US, while Libya and Syria's were reason enough for much ado - like toppling Gaddafi after thousands of flights and bombs.<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-20250112335881652812017-03-31T15:39:46.207-07:002017-03-31T15:39:46.207-07:00So they are aligned with our interests. Whatever t...So they are aligned with our interests. Whatever those may be now.<br /><br />Tilllerson's statement on Bahrein suggests our interests and antidemocratic interests align well since the last couple months.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-40633160406380015012017-03-31T11:23:22.945-07:002017-03-31T11:23:22.945-07:00Skipper, when I saw your comment in my email, I wa...Skipper, when I saw your comment in my email, I was stopped cold because I remembered when we heard from Duck's sister/daughter - sorry senior moments running into senior long-weekends. <br /><br />Glad you're in fine fettle, but cut Clovis some slack. He's working from a very slanted set of "facts" and has come a long way, not all the way yet, but I have high hopes the scales will fall from his eyes while I'm still around to see it.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-15215669759859950912017-03-31T08:36:14.620-07:002017-03-31T08:36:14.620-07:00Skipper,
---
Oh, and about that consequent: go to...Skipper,<br /><br />---<br />Oh, and about that consequent: go to hell.<br />---<br /><br />Well, thanks. We could have ended this topic a few thousand words ago if you were that straightforward before.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-47415125630098065952017-03-31T07:51:02.811-07:002017-03-31T07:51:02.811-07:00(BTW, blogging from my daughter's computer.)(BTW, blogging from my daughter's computer.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05615212682415561071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-81157182024718131152017-03-31T07:50:08.659-07:002017-03-31T07:50:08.659-07:00[Harry:] Whatever those may be. But if your statem...<i>[Harry:] Whatever those may be. But if your statement is accurate, we are paying a lot of money for no return.</i><br /><br />The continued existence of Israel. No nuclear arms race between Iraq and Iran. Freedom of navigation through the Straits of Hormuz, through which a great deal of the earth's energy supplies flow.<br /><br />Yep, you are right Harry. No return.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05615212682415561071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-80341221375355241502017-03-31T07:47:28.947-07:002017-03-31T07:47:28.947-07:00[Harry:] Whatever those may be. But if your statem...<i>[Harry:] Whatever those may be. But if your statement is accurate, we are paying a lot of money for no return. </i><br /><br />Israel. Freedom of navigation through the straits of Hormuz, through which a significant portion of the world's energy flows. Just to name a couple that are no return.<br /><br /><i>[Clovis:] You are being unfair.<br /><br />For I beforehand accepted the notion that I could be wrong, since I recognized I could not prove any of it. And I did not ask you to believe any of it either. </i><br /><br />No, you didn't. You directly asserted the US, through social engineering or other obvious, but undetectable means, was directly responsible for the refugee crisis. You scattered snottiness about the place when I found your notions completely unpersuasive. <br /><br />Pronunciamentos and unearned expressions of intellectual superiority. What isn't Harry about that?<br /><br /><i> But I do enjoy the consideration of conspiracy theories in general, for the simple fun of it. So what I asked from you was an imaginary exercise. Were I right, what would change for you?</i><br /><br />If pigs could fly, we'd need steel umbrellas.<br /><br /><i>I don't think you ever tried to answer that question very honestly, though to the extent you did answer, I get nothing at all would change for you. Which means you would be perfectly fine counting all those bodies and refugees on account of US actions.</i><br /><br />If I ever need to provide a perfect example of a non sequitur, this would be it. There is no plausible chain of reasoning that leads from antecedent to consequent.<br /><br />Which probably means you desire the consequent so badly you can't be fussed with how you got there.<br /><br />Oh, and about that consequent: go to hell.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05615212682415561071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-66906022910317280822017-03-30T13:36:47.028-07:002017-03-30T13:36:47.028-07:00Skipper,
---
You have, however, done an outstandi...Skipper,<br /><br />---<br />You have, however, done an outstanding job of channeling Harry in particular, and conspiracies nuts in general.<br />---<br />You are being unfair.<br /><br />For I beforehand accepted the notion that I could be wrong, since I recognized I could not prove any of it. And I did not ask you to believe any of it either.<br /><br /><br />But I do enjoy the consideration of conspiracy theories in general, for the simple fun of it. So what I asked from you was an imaginary exercise. Were I right, what would change for you?<br /><br />I don't think you ever tried to answer that question very honestly, though to the extent you did answer, I get nothing at all would change for you. Which means you would be perfectly fine counting all those bodies and refugees on account of US actions.<br /><br />Exercises about hypotheticals are not only about the object in study. They are also meant to probe the students. Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-70589989634123711082017-03-30T13:25:57.447-07:002017-03-30T13:25:57.447-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-39185596006564855842017-03-30T11:20:32.627-07:002017-03-30T11:20:32.627-07:00'There are no countries in the Middle East, as...'There are no countries in the Middle East, aside from Israel, that are "aligned with US policies".'<br /><br />Whatever those may be. But if your statement is accurate, we are paying a lot of money for no return.<br /><br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-90093333893170903842017-03-30T10:36:37.409-07:002017-03-30T10:36:37.409-07:00[Hey Skipper:] Why the heck did you make me plow t...<i>[Hey Skipper:] Why the heck did you make me plow through the whole thing?<br />---<br />[Clovis:] Because you many times asked for a link. I've chosen one that could give you the benefit of a structural vision of the region. </i><br /><br />I asked you for something — anything — that provided evidence and an argument for the US directly contributing to the Syrian refugee crisis. That link, in that respect, and practically all others, was merely an assertion, absent evidence or argument, just as you have done, and just as worthless.<br /><br /><i>Most observers who think the ME in terms of its entire complexity easily predicted Iraq 2003 would end up in a mess such as we see today -- yet you think it is a stretch of imagination to ever argue so.</i><br /><br />No, I think it is thoughtless reflex to blame the US (except for the the possibility that had the US remained in Iraq, rather than leaving, it might not have happened) for <i>the refugee crisis</i>. I think it also demands some real thought, rather than just more Harry-level snottiness, to conclude that the region with US intervention is worse than it would have been without it. You are arguing for a null.<br /><br /><i>Keep it classy, would you?<br /><br />You complain both when I give you a link and when I don't - even when I gave you from the outset and you can't take it.</i><br /><br />Why? You have completely wasted my time, and you continue to do so here.<br /><br /><i>Since you are unable to follow a link and read it, I will select for you the specific passages that defined US policy towards Lybia and Syria <b>from 2002 on</b>.</i><br /><br />Now, either the Heritage Foundation has beaten physicists to time travel, or <i>Weapons of Mass Destruction <b>May 6, 2002</b></i> would be a waste of my time. And as irrelevant as it is possible to be. Or can't you read your own link?<br /><br /><i>First, Libya. There is no doubt that Libya continues its longstanding pursuit of nuclear weapons.</i> As of 2002, that is. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction" rel="nofollow">A year later, no so much.</a><br /><br /><i>If you ever ask me again to explain to you why those countries were seen by US foreign policy circles as antagonistic to US interests, I swear I will kick your butt in person the next time I take a flight to Germany.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://greatguys.blogspot.com/2017/03/saturday-puzzler.html?showComment=1490109931171#c7901186000627298372" rel="nofollow">Here is what you said</a>: <i>I disagree. It easily explains why the Arab Spring wreaked havoc only among countries not aligned with US Middle East policy, where the only possible exception (Egypt) is explained as a mix of experiment and vacillation by Obama.</i><br /><br />There are no countries in the Middle East, aside from Israel, that are "aligned with US policies". Up until the Arab Spring, it was no different, in any particular matter, than it had been for decades. Syria's civil war didn't change that. <br /><br />You did not go through each ME country, assess it's policies wrt to the US, how they changed, or didn't, and how observable factors did not fully account for the outcome in each.<br /><br />In other words, you continue to put up bullshit "responses". To change that, you need to present an affirmative factually derived argument that the US materially affected the outcomes of the Arab Spring. Just as you need to do the same to demonstrate that the refugee crisis is a direct function of US policies.<br /><br />You have done neither. You have, however, done an outstanding job of channeling Harry in particular, and conspiracies nuts in general.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-8585454117288229812017-03-27T12:46:32.182-07:002017-03-27T12:46:32.182-07:00... scouring for baksheesh????... scouring for baksheesh????erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-62263838146092768642017-03-27T12:38:18.893-07:002017-03-27T12:38:18.893-07:00That misrepresents what the UN was doing.That misrepresents what the UN was doing.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-70579987756692973402017-03-27T12:13:05.268-07:002017-03-27T12:13:05.268-07:00Harry, The UN was looking WMD - remember. They ev...Harry, The UN was looking WMD - remember. They even had a special investigator -- I forgot his name who later turned out to be some kind of pervert -- scouring the Iraqi landscape for them.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-72681685863367443822017-03-27T11:39:40.146-07:002017-03-27T11:39:40.146-07:00If Bush 2 was looking for WMD, maybe he should hav...If Bush 2 was looking for WMD, maybe he should have invaded some other countries?Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-50755437087235442892017-03-27T04:11:36.344-07:002017-03-27T04:11:36.344-07:00Now Syria:
----
The United States also knows that...Now Syria:<br /><br />----<br />The United States also knows that Syria has long had a chemical warfare program. It has a stockpile of the nerve agent sarin and is engaged in research and development of the more toxic and persistent nerve agent VX. Although Damascus currently is dependent on foreign sources for key elements of its chemical warfare program, including precursor chemicals and key production equipment, we are concerned about Syrian advances in its indigenous CW infrastructure which would significantly increase the independence of its CW program. We think that Syria has a variety of aerial bombs and SCUD warheads, which are potential means of delivery of deadly agents capable of striking neighboring countries.<br /><br />Syria, which has signed but not ratified the BWC, is pursuing the development of biological weapons and is able to produce at least small amounts of biological warfare agents. While we believe Syria would need foreign assistance to launch a large-scale biological weapons program right now, it may obtain such assistance by the end of this decade.<br /><br />Syria has a combined total of several hundred SCUD B, SCUD C and SS-21 SRBMs, It is pursuing both solid- and liquid-propellant missile programs and relies extensively on foreign assistance in these endeavors. North Korean and Russian entities have been involved in aiding Syria's ballistic missile development. All of Syria's missiles are mobile and can reach much of Israel, Jordan, and Turkey from launch sites well within the country.<br />-----<br /><br /><br />Where it is useful to remember this is 2002. After that, in 2005, Assad directed the assassination of the Lebanese prime minister together with Hezbollah, as well as initiated a nuclear facility enriching fissile material with the aid of North Korea - destroyed by Israel in 2007, as I indicated in previous discussions.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />If you ever ask me again to explain to you why those countries were seen by US foreign policy circles as antagonistic to US interests, I swear I will kick your butt in person the next time I take a flight to Germany.<br /><br /><br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-44571153591709148802017-03-27T04:07:36.052-07:002017-03-27T04:07:36.052-07:00Still Lybia:
----
Libya is also continuing its ef...Still Lybia:<br /><br />----<br />Libya is also continuing its efforts to obtain ballistic missile-related equipment, materials, technology, and expertise from foreign sources. Outside assistance--particularly Serbian, Indian, North Korean, and Chinese--is critical to its ballistic missile development programs, and the suspension of UN sanctions in 1999 has allowed Tripoli to expand its procurement effort. Libya's current capability probably remains limited to its SCUD B missiles; but with continued foreign assistance, it may achieve an MRBM capability--a long desired goal--or extended-range SCUD capability.<br /><br />Although Libya is one of seven countries on the State Department's list of state sponsors of terror,1 the U.S. has noted recent positive steps by the Libyan government that we hope indicate that Tripoli wishes to rejoin the community of civilized states. In 1999, Libya turned over two Libyans wanted in connection with the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, for trial in the Netherlands. In 2001, it condemned the September 11 attacks publicly and signed the 12 terrorist conventions listed in UN Security Council Resolution 1273. And, as I have already mentioned, Libya has also announced its intention to accede to CWC.<br /><br />However, as I have also said, words are not enough. The key is to see clear, hard evidence that Libya will, in fact, live up to the public standards it has set for itself. Libya can make a positive gesture in this regard by fulfilling its obligations under WMD treaties and becoming a party to the CWC. Moreover, Libya must honor the relevant UN Security Council Resolutions relating to the resolution of Pan Am 103, arguably the worst air terrorist disaster prior to September 11. Libya has yet to comply fully with these resolutions, which include accepting responsibility and paying compensation. It is past time that Libya did this.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-75314544579788224752017-03-27T04:07:24.030-07:002017-03-27T04:07:24.030-07:00Skipper,
Since you are unable to follow a link an...Skipper,<br /><br />Since you are unable to <a href="http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/beyond-the-axis-evil-additional-threats-weapons-mass-destruction-0" rel="nofollow">follow a link and read it</a>, I will select for you the specific passages that defined US policy towards Lybia and Syria from 2002 on.<br />---------<br />First, Libya. There is no doubt that Libya continues its longstanding pursuit of nuclear weapons. We believe that since the suspension of UN sanctions against Libya in 1999, Libya has been able to increase its access to dual use nuclear technologies. Although Libya would need significant foreign assistance to acquire a nuclear weapon, Tripoli's nuclear infrastructure enhancement remains of concern. Qaddafi hinted at this in a recent (25 March) interview with Al-Jazirah when he said, "We demanded the dismantling of the weapons of mass destruction that the Israelis have; we must continue to demand that. Otherwise, the Arabs will have the right to possess that weapon."<br /><br />Among its weapons of mass destruction programs, Libya--which is not a party to the CWC--continues its goal of reestablishing its offensive chemical weapons ability, as well as pursuing an indigenous chemical warfare production capability. Libya has produced at least 100 tons of different kinds of chemical weapons, using its Rabta facility. That facility closed down after it was subject to media scrutiny, but then reopened as a pharmaceutical plant in 1995. Although production of chemical agents reportedly has been halted, CW production at Rabta cannot be ruled out. It remains heavily dependent on foreign suppliers for precursor chemicals, technical expertise, and other key chemical warfare-related equipment. Following the suspension of UN sanctions in April 1999, Libya has reestablished contacts with illicit foreign sources of expertise, parts, and precursor chemicals in the Middle East, Asia, and Western Europe.<br /><br />Conversely, Libya has publicly indicated its intent to join the CWC. While our perceptions of Libya would not change overnight, such a move could be positive. Under the CWC, Libya would be required to declare and destroy all chemical weapons production facilities and stockpiles, make declarations about any dual use chemical industry, undertake not to research or produce any chemical weapons, and not to export certain chemicals to countries that have not signed the CWC. Libya would also be subject to challenge inspections of any facility, declared or not.<br /><br />Significantly for predictive purposes, Libya became a State Party to the BWC in January 1982, but the U.S. believes that Libya has continued its biological warfare program. Although its program is in the research and development stage, Libya may be capable of producing small quantities of biological agent. Libya's BW program has been hindered, in part, by the country's poor scientific and technological base, equipment shortages, and a lack of skilled personnel, as well as by UN sanctions in place from 1992 to 1999.<br /><br /><br />[to be continued...]Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-63853239634534820372017-03-27T03:59:42.303-07:002017-03-27T03:59:42.303-07:00Skipper,
---
Why the heck did you make me plow th...Skipper,<br /><br />---<br />Why the heck did you make me plow through the whole thing?<br />---<br />Because you many times asked for a link. I've chosen one that could give you the benefit of a structural vision of the region.<br /><br />Most observers who think the ME in terms of its entire complexity easily predicted Iraq 2003 would end up in a mess such as we see today -- yet you think it is a stretch of imagination to ever argue so. The present situation was predicted from the outset, vindicated by the experience, and there you are, entirely oblivious of the trivial.<br /><br />---<br />And I remain mystified that, instead of relieving my awareness, you keep providing that same fucking bullshit answer.<br />---<br />Keep it classy, would you?<br /><br />You complain both when I give you a link and when I don't - even when I gave you from the outset and you can't take it.<br /><br />Pray tell me, Skipper, what do you want more than a US State Department detailed score of black list points on each of those countries?Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.com