tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post5369105177421428186..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Bitcoin and VenezuelaBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-90029444099120573412016-12-15T15:37:26.562-08:002016-12-15T15:37:26.562-08:00Harry, friendly reminder: Still no definition of ...Harry, friendly reminder: Still no definition of a right winger from you, so I will fall back on the generally accepted one of fascist.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-49771355046497211312016-12-15T11:43:41.435-08:002016-12-15T11:43:41.435-08:00Why would I expect some guy spending millions of d...<i>Why would I expect some guy spending millions of dollars on airplanes to know about them? </i><br /><br />The very first thing you should ask yourself is what <b>you</b> know. Which is, just as I expected, precisely nothing. You are completely unable to identify a single element of the 146 design driven by the requirement to land on Arctic beaches.<br /><br />Drawing a conclusion from no facts -- par for the journalism course.<br /><br />Of course, I would expect a Mr. Some Airline Guy to know a great deal about some elements of aircraft capabilities: pax, rwy required, fuel burn in pounds per revenue seat mile, speed, range, etc. <br /><br />Whether it is designed to land on beaches? Bollocks, Harry. Pure, stinking bollocks.<br /><br />How many dirt strips does Mr. Some Airline Guy land Some Hawaiian Airlines 146's on?<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-18271281793647776262016-12-15T11:10:22.004-08:002016-12-15T11:10:22.004-08:00Why would I expect some guy spending millions of d...Why would I expect some guy spending millions of dollars on airplanes to know about them? Gee, hard one. Let me think.<br /><br />Although, that's reality-based thinking, so I cannot expect rightwingers to get on board <br /><br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-31122278943926219222016-12-15T05:17:50.201-08:002016-12-15T05:17:50.201-08:00Good one, Skipper. They say it's best to star...Good one, Skipper. They say it's best to start off each with a smile and that last one made me laugh out loud.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-78298268783654794922016-12-15T01:47:09.284-08:002016-12-15T01:47:09.284-08:00Harry, it matters a great deal: when you say you ...Harry, it matters a great deal: when you say you are right, and I'm wrong, then you must have a reason. You don't.<br /><br />And some guy running an airline doesn't count. After all, why would you expect Mr. Some Airline Running Guy to know more about airplane design than a professional pilot? After all, despite having been an airline pilot for 17 years, I would never claim to know even a small fraction of what it takes to run an airline as Mr. Some Airline Running Guy.<br /><br /><i>... he and I are equally knowledgible [sic] here. </i><br /><br />He can't possibly be that ignorant, or arrogant.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-43656338639946975732016-12-14T16:02:45.562-08:002016-12-14T16:02:45.562-08:00It wouldn't matter if I didn't but perhaps...It wouldn't matter if I didn't but perhaps a bit worrisome of the guy running an airline doesn't; and he and I are equally knowledgible hereHarry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-70137990674340501552016-12-12T22:46:53.634-08:002016-12-12T22:46:53.634-08:00Harry, you have absolutely no idea what you are ta...Harry, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.<br /><br />The only difference between a garden variety 146, and one that lands on gravel strips is something <i>added</i> to the plane <i>after</i> it is built. <br /><br />The airplane was not designed to land on gravel runways; rather, the ability to land on gravel runways was a side effect of its design.<br /><br />Let me put it differently: since you are so wise in the ways of aircraft design, what would be different about the 146 if it hadn't been designed to land on gravel runways? (and, no, the gravel kit doesn't count)<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-68770336311941970042016-12-12T19:51:02.816-08:002016-12-12T19:51:02.816-08:00I was right and you are wrong. I was right and you are wrong. Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-6695362870323604582016-12-12T17:36:21.040-08:002016-12-12T17:36:21.040-08:00Here is what you said:
[Harry:] The BAE 146 was d...Here is what you said:<br /><br /><i>[Harry:] The BAE 146 was designed to be able to operate from Arctic beaches -- a strange parameter for a 4-engine jet airliner …<br /> </i><br /><br />The 146 <i>can</i> operate from gravel strips, but that doesn't mean it was anything like a primary design consideration. Which were: quiet, jet speeds, short to medium range. To put jet engines on an airplane that size requires a high wing, <i>regardless of where you intend to land it</i>. With a high wing, and the relatively low weight (max is around half that of a 737), it has the potential for use on unpaved surfaces. However, in as much as practically none of them actually do that -- I got tired of browsing Bae146 images looking for even one with a gravel kit -- it is a singularly odd claim that was a goal of the design, rather than a consequence.<br /><br />You may have discussed airline strategy, but there is no sign you talked about airplane design.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-4587722645002892162016-12-12T15:13:35.627-08:002016-12-12T15:13:35.627-08:00There are few things I know less about than airpla...There are few things I know less about than airplanes, so I'll pass to our resident expert.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-27795570433296383342016-12-12T14:55:01.094-08:002016-12-12T14:55:01.094-08:00Actually, erp, unlike Skipper, I often discuss air...Actually, erp, unlike Skipper, I often discuss airline strategy with airline presidents, from some of the biggest down through medium ones to quite small ones. Or I did before I retired.<br /><br /><br />http://blog.tomw.net.au/2012/07/bae146-aircraft-with-gravel-kits-for.html<br /><br />http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/10390413/remote-and-unpaved-airfield-operations-growing-using-bae-systems-suv-bae-146-avro-rj<br /><br />http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/print-369367-operate-jet-prop-gravel-runway.html<br /><br />http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=762133Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-33296763783248329132016-12-11T16:17:26.517-08:002016-12-11T16:17:26.517-08:00Skipper, it's so hard for the fact challenged ...Skipper, it's so hard for the fact challenged to accept it when someone has actual boots-on-the-ground knowledge of something rather than the word of someone with whom one chats with at a coffee shop in Maui.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-14811750298115251762016-12-11T14:09:40.243-08:002016-12-11T14:09:40.243-08:00No.
There's your problem, right there. Just ...<i>No. </i><br /><br />There's your problem, right there. Just like <a href="https://restatingtheobviousmaui.blogspot.com/2016/10/bring-back-our-industrial-jobs.html?showComment=1481491955500#c5072649229460085277" rel="nofollow">here</a>, you take one fact, and without even a glimmer of a clue as to how any facts you don't know, you leap to a foolish conclusion.<br /><br />Compare gross weights between the Bae146 and other four engine jets, for a start. Now, consider fuselage length, wing placement, and landing gear design. Now, think about gross weight and engine size, and air volume going through the engine, and how far off of a gravel strip the cowling as to be to keep from hoovering up gravel and processing it through the turbine section.<br /><br />And think -- if you can -- that the 146 is in the same weight class as a large, two engine, <i>high wing</i> turboprop. So it will have the same potential for operating off of gravel runways. Hence the gravel kit.<br /><br /> Oh, by the way <i>... in explaining to me why it was suitable for our small airstrips, told me about the Arctic beaches. That's why Wikileaks thought it relevant to mention the gravel kits.</i> is two non sequiturs jammed into fewer than 30 words.<br /><br />Typical for a journalist.<br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-43247968529498084022016-12-11T12:38:08.465-08:002016-12-11T12:38:08.465-08:00No.
Damn those isolated facts! They're so . ...No. <br /><br />Damn those isolated facts! They're so . . . I dunno . . . factual?Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-30484179044658340562016-12-11T02:59:39.790-08:002016-12-11T02:59:39.790-08:00And I am going to bet that by using the metric &qu...And I am going to bet that by using the metric "4-engine jet", that there is another parable for you about misconstruing an isolated fact that, no matter how true it may be, is the wrong one.<br /><br />Can you guess what the, correct, useful metric might be?Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-34741673622899060352016-12-10T20:58:33.962-08:002016-12-10T20:58:33.962-08:00When Discovery Airlines flew the Bae146 in Hawaii,...When Discovery Airlines flew the Bae146 in Hawaii, its president, in ex[laining to me why it was suitable for our small airstrips, told me about the Arctic beaches. That's why Wikileaks thought it relevant to mention the gravel kits. <br /><br />I am going to bet that in all the Wiki articles on other 4-engine jets, gravel kits are not mentioned. Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-86266392305945896452016-12-10T14:37:35.977-08:002016-12-10T14:37:35.977-08:00[HS:] 'Which includes exactly nothing saying i...<i>[HS:] 'Which includes exactly nothing saying it was designed to operate from Arctic beaches.'<br /><br />[Harry:] Gravel kit. </i><br /><br />This is a parable for the benefit of those, e.g., you, Harry, who think some isolated fact, which you misconstrue, leads to a general conclusion. <br /><br />A gravel kit consists of motorcycle-like fenders that deflect gravel the tires throw up so that the underside of the fuselage and wings does not get trashed. That absolutely does not even remotely suggest the airplane was designed to operate from gravel strips, whether in the Arctic, or elsewhere.<br /><br />What's the matter with Laffer Curve?Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-539373851680807942016-12-10T11:15:07.803-08:002016-12-10T11:15:07.803-08:00'Which includes exactly nothing saying it was ...'Which includes exactly nothing saying it was designed to operate from Arctic beaches.'<br /><br />Gravel kit. <br /><br />The Fireproof Hotel idea is a parable for the benefit of those who, eg, believe in the Laffer Curve. Or that Coolidge Prosperity was a thing.<br /><br />Examples of current iterations can be found in the frozen pizza aisle of your supermarket.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-14960944743443391122016-12-09T14:27:10.534-08:002016-12-09T14:27:10.534-08:00[Harry:] As for the BAE 146 design, see here:
Whi...<i>[Harry:] As for the BAE 146 design, see here:</i><br /><br />Which includes exactly nothing saying it was designed to operate from Arctic beaches.<br /><br /><i>Clovis, I have often written about the Fireproof Hotel effect, which says that the kind of 'most efficient' risk-taker will always enter in a free market and will, because of his price advantage, tend to drive out responsible operators. </i><br /><br />It is bizarre that you somehow continue to insist that regulation means a free market doesn't exist. <br /><br />Oddly, you don't twig that your continued reference to the US of a hundred (or whenever) years ago as being somehow indicative of anything today is a glaring indication that your continued reference is unfailingly beside the point.<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-43666011064167432522016-12-09T12:05:18.033-08:002016-12-09T12:05:18.033-08:00Harry, make sure to provide examples of union orga...Harry, make sure to provide examples of union organizers who deliberately locked the doors so employees couldn't get out and then started the fires. I'm sure you can supply real world examples of union organizers engaged in all kinds of sabotage. <br /><br />We already went around this one Clovis. It was old when the New Deal was new. Difference is now everyone knows it's a farce.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-47937710446912762252016-12-09T11:36:52.796-08:002016-12-09T11:36:52.796-08:00Clovis, I have often written about the Fireproof H...Clovis, I have often written about the Fireproof Hotel effect, which says that the kind of 'most efficient' risk-taker will always enter in a free market and will, because of his price advantage, tend to drive out responsible operators.<br /><br />I can supply real world examples.<br /><br />I am speaking of cabotage as a concept. I do not know if cabotage contributed to the Medellin crash.<br /><br />As for the BAE 146 design, see here:<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_146<br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-28768919495577135052016-12-09T09:44:20.111-08:002016-12-09T09:44:20.111-08:00[Clovis:] The point is entirely another. Those ...<i>[Clovis:] The point is entirely another. Those 'cabotage rules', IMHO, only make sense as a reservation of the market for national companies. </i><br /><br />That is a way it often makes sense, but not the only way. Training, certification, and compliance aren't cheap.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/587574-jet-goes-down-its-way-medellin-colombia-31.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is a long and reasonably well informed discussion at PPRUNE (Professional Pilots Rumor Network) about that completely avoidable tragedy. I picked page 31 for a couple reasons: I don't have time to read through the entire thread, and it has some information about what went on prior to the flight taking off.<br /><br />Probably the most informative stuff starts around page 31 and out. <br /><br />It is completely appalling, and doesn't appear to have anything to do with whatever version of cabotage was in play here.<br /><br /><i>In short, I think there is a case to make that the same regulatory State enforcing those safety rules you imply as thwarting free riders, is also protecting inefficient companies based only on their geographical location, hence producing another kind of free riders. </i><br /><br />Perhaps. I can only speak with any authority about US/Canada/Europe, etc airlines. The unions howl like banshees at any mention of open skies agreements. And to some extent, I can sympathize (full disclosure, I'm a member of one of those unions; however, the nature of the freight business means we would probably hugely benefit from open skies). For instance, Emirates is making huge inroads against US flag carriers.<br /><br />Might have something to do with Emirates airplanes getting half their fuel for free.<br /><br /><br /><i>[Harry:] The BAE 146 was designed to be able to operate from Arctic beaches -- a strange parameter for a 4-engine jet airliner …</i><br /><br />A strange parameter, indeed. If it was even remotely true. <br /><br />This is yet another in a very long list of examples why you should source your claims.<br /><br /><i>[Harry:] You know what happens in a free market: Well by now you should.<br /><br />[Clovis:] How come those things have just happened in Bolivia, a very non-free marketplace by the way?</i><br /><br />Harry is attacking a strawman. Or creating a false dichotomy. Hard to know which, unless it is both.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-10321962684004918342016-12-07T07:58:11.761-08:002016-12-07T07:58:11.761-08:00Clovis wrote: "How come those things have jus...Clovis wrote: "<i>How come those things have just happened in Bolivia, a very non-free marketplace by the way?</i>"<br /><br />Oops. You just fell into the Harry definitional trap. To him, capitalism and free-markets are any place that the government doesn't have COMPLETE control over all aspects of the enterprise. Certainly Brazil and I'm pretty sure Bolivia would qualify as free-markets in Harry's dictionary. Probably even Venezuela would be free market. And the second definition is if it's bad it's capitalism, if it's good it's socialism. A plane crash is therefore capitalism by definition in Harry's book. :-) Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-73364740631090342382016-12-07T07:17:23.351-08:002016-12-07T07:17:23.351-08:00Harry,
---
You know what happens in a free market...Harry,<br /><br />---<br />You know what happens in a free market: Well by now you should.<br />---<br /><br />It is hard to say, I never lived in one. I sure know what it is like living in their opposite though.<br /><br />---<br />If any entrant can play then some will enter as 'most efficient' by using clapped out planes, skipping required maintenance, hiring unqualified pilots. <br />---<br /><br />How come those things have just happened in Bolivia, a very non-free marketplace by the way?<br /><br />In theory, in a free market such 'most efficient' players would die away. Well, one from Bolivia just did. in aviation, there is a big price to pay for recklessness, and cabotage rules make sure that price is way lower - you will hardly lose much of your market share if you are one of a few national companies protected from competition. <br /><br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-42177400599629339772016-12-07T06:53:25.170-08:002016-12-07T06:53:25.170-08:00'Those 'cabotage rules', IMHO, only ma...'Those 'cabotage rules', IMHO, only make sense as a reservation of the market for national companies.'<br /><br />You know what happens in a free market: Well by now you should.<br /><br />If any entrant can play then some will enter as 'most efficient' by using clapped out planes, skipping required maintenance, hiring unqualified pilots. But I will agree that cabotage is a first-world solution. See aviation in Indonesia.<br /><br />The BAE 146 was designed to be able to operate from Arctic beaches -- a strange parameter for a 4-engine jet airliner -- so the pilot could have put down on any flat place; too bad there aren't any of those around Medellin.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.com