tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post7314227249271195861..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: The Boundaries of MoralityBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-23601349240237330562017-02-10T05:07:02.736-08:002017-02-10T05:07:02.736-08:00[Harry:] 'Harry, have I ever had need to?'...<i>[Harry:] 'Harry, have I ever had need to?'<br /><br />Yes</i><br /><br />More level zero trolling from Harry.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-28911823747264318702017-02-07T09:45:28.687-08:002017-02-07T09:45:28.687-08:00Harry, let logic be your friend. My experience wi...Harry, let logic be your friend. My experience with nuns ended in 1948 and I have wonderful memories of those days and I swear, they never made me -- or anyone else to my knowledge -- work in the laundry.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-59074790648320976282017-02-07T09:15:03.601-08:002017-02-07T09:15:03.601-08:00Gentle Irish farm girls in action:
https://en.wik...Gentle Irish farm girls in action:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylumHarry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-87134906582255939482017-02-06T12:16:05.254-08:002017-02-06T12:16:05.254-08:00'Harry, have I ever had need to?'
Yes'Harry, have I ever had need to?'<br /><br />YesHarry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-47621791117507252262017-02-05T13:12:04.492-08:002017-02-05T13:12:04.492-08:00Harry, again "cause and effect"? You ar...Harry, again "cause and effect"? You are impugning the FF's intentions by citing events and policies over which they had no control. Let's praise them for their outstanding work and not scourge them because they couldn't reverse the ills of the past or control those of the future.<br /><br />Isn't it enough they gave us a blueprint for a just society of equality under the law. That we weak humans haven't been able to make it work perfectly is no reason to blame the authors. <br /><br /><br /><br />erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-13190301449596144732017-02-05T12:24:21.294-08:002017-02-05T12:24:21.294-08:00[Harry:] And if you think that the Founding Father...<i>[Harry:] And if you think that the Founding Fathers intended for Indians to eventually enjoy the rights of white men, you should go back and read the Declaration of Independence. I am sure you never have.</i><br /><br />Thanks, Clovis, for doing what is apparently beyond Harry's blogging skills.<br /><br />I'm curious, Harry, how you get from <br /><br /><i>He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.</i> <br /><br />to <br /><br /><i>And if you think that the Founding Fathers intended for Indians to eventually enjoy the rights of white men, you should go back and read the Declaration of Independence.</i><br /><br />It is hard to tell which is most crippled here, your reading comprehension, or basic reason. <br /><br />But why choose?<br /><br /><i>For example, Skipper goes ballistic at the thought of the Holodomor but the US used exactly the same policies against the Five Civilized Tribes, for exactly the same reason, yet Skipper has never condemned the Americans. </i><br /><br />Harry, have I ever had need to? Has it come up in conversation? Has it ever been in a thread to which I provided comments? Did I praise the Americans?<br /><br />Do you have anything remotely resembling a point here, or are you just blowing it our your hat again?<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-88456009281049466372017-02-03T15:46:36.426-08:002017-02-03T15:46:36.426-08:00The sisters never had a reputation for gentleness....The sisters never had a reputation for gentleness. Just the reverse. I was never a student of Jesuits, although I later knew some. They were scarcely 'aristos.'<br /><br /><br /><br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-51226604449185916162017-02-03T13:16:17.084-08:002017-02-03T13:16:17.084-08:00... so Harry, in your world the Sisters of Charity...... so Harry, in your world the Sisters of Charity who were mostly poor gentle Irish farm girls are rightwingers who would willfully distort history and the mostly aristo Jesuits are selfless workers among the poor, not self-righteous commies. Bizarro.<br /><br />As for the FF, they were in their time, not yours, and dealt with the political correctness of the then as well as they could. I'm not even going to bother looking up Article VIII, because it must be hateful in that it probably doesn't have codicils describing the correct treatment of the 51 different mix and matches of sexes, tranies, bi's and tri's, not to mention melanin levels, whippings and Republicans who switched parties so many times it's breathtaking.<br /><br />Kudos - you again topped yourself in silliness.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-1533797090064838932017-02-03T12:39:26.725-08:002017-02-03T12:39:26.725-08:00As it happens, I was taught by Sisters of Charity ...As it happens, I was taught by Sisters of Charity from the age of 4 to 10, then the equally rightwing Grey Nuns from age 11 to 14, then Sisters of Charity (and similar orders) from 15 to 17. <br /><br />And, yes, all who dealt with the Declaration sanitized it.<br /><br />Logic, eh? Maybe you are right and the Founders did the best they could in '87, but a hundred years later the US government was still using anti-liberal policies. <br /><br />Bret, the study of US policy toward the Indians would repay you many times. For example, Skipper goes ballistic at the thought of the Holodomor, but the US used exactly the same policies against the Five Civilized Tribes, for exactly the same reason, yet Skipper has never condemned the Americans. <br /><br />Recall that the Founders treated tribes as sovereign nations (as we still do, on paper anyway) which implied that American ideas of liberty were not to apply to Indians. Later, there was a policy of assimilation but it could not be called a policy of extending liberty to Indians inasmuch as -- to take one example -- they were not allowed to choose what way they made a living.<br /><br />Here, for starters is part of the Treaty of Holston (1791): ARTICLE VIII.<br />If any citizen of the United States, or other person not being an Indian, shall settle on any of the Cherokees’ lands, such person shall forfeit the protection of the United States, and the Cherokees may punish him or not, as they please. <br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-46062815159113562792017-02-02T17:28:05.379-08:002017-02-02T17:28:05.379-08:00... you mean rightwing patriots like the Sisters o...... you mean rightwing patriots like the <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=sisters+of+charity&hl=en&sourceid=gd&rlz=1Q1GGLD_enUS626US626" rel="nofollow">Sisters of Charity</a> 1940-48 and the New York City Public Schools 1948-52 and the City College system after that. <br /><br />I find it hard to understand how the <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+exclusion+act&hl=en&sourceid=gd&rlz=1Q1GGLD_enUS626US626" rel="nofollow">Chinese Exclusion Act 1882</a> influenced the DoI signed on July 4, 1776.<br /><br />Bret is about the age of my kids whose school experience was in the hands of the teachers' unions and bore no resemblance to my own. Why would those who share your world view sanitize the version of the Declaration of Independence presented to students?<br /><br />At the risk of being repetitious, take a course in Logic. There are probably some good ones on line. It might help clarify reality for you.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-14097072552015803542017-02-02T17:22:13.477-08:002017-02-02T17:22:13.477-08:00Harry wrote: "...the Founders had no intentio...Harry wrote: "<i>...the Founders had no intention, ever, of admitting Indians to the so-called liberty of the United States.</i>"<br /><br />I'm guessing yes and no. I'm guessing that there were some Indians that went, er, well, "non-native" and lived with settlers and early citizens and probably had some degree of liberty. Certainly there were at least a handful of interracial marriages (think Pocahontas).<br /><br />Indians as a whole? Do you think they were interested in joining the political structure? I doubt it. And if so, then of course the Founders would correctly have realized it wasn't even a possibility to admit Indians "to the so-called liberty of the United States."<br /><br />Harry Eagar wrote: "<i>...you were presented with a sanitized version of the Declaration...</i>"<br /><br />Maybe. It's a fairly short document, the rest of the paragraphs were vaguely familiar, but that one? I don't think I ever saw it before - it's pretty memorable and it seems unlikely that that's the one I completely forgot. On the other hand, it was a long time ago that I read it, so I don't know for sure.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-24885839613289302232017-02-02T16:53:18.868-08:002017-02-02T16:53:18.868-08:00I made the point, which was that, contra erp, the ...I made the point, which was that, contra erp, the Founders had no intention, ever, of admitting Indians to the so-called liberty of the United States.<br /><br />It was that conservative hero Burke who observed sourly that the loudest yelps about liberty came out of 'drivers of negroes.'<br /><br />As Clovis says, same old same old. As for fantasies about getting the best deal they could, erp might want to look up the date of the Chinese Exclusion Act.<br /><br />I suspect, Bret, that you were presented with a sanitized version of the Declaration. The reason people like erp don't know anything about the real history of the United States is that rightwing patriots would never permit it to be taught.<br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-71038524474531201912017-02-02T05:50:28.882-08:002017-02-02T05:50:28.882-08:00Over to you Bret.Over to you Bret.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-24284270908126334682017-02-02T05:25:50.924-08:002017-02-02T05:25:50.924-08:00I am making no point at all. Just taking notice of...I am making no point at all. Just taking notice of the same old, same old.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-19937308210307081252017-02-01T18:42:28.566-08:002017-02-01T18:42:28.566-08:00Clovis, I'm curious as to what point you'r...Clovis, I'm curious as to what point you're making as well.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-35294433520409023582017-02-01T17:22:32.463-08:002017-02-01T17:22:32.463-08:00Clovis, I don't get where you're going wit...Clovis, I don't get where you're going with this? Indian tribes fought amongst themselves. We're far afield from DoI. The FF got the best deal they could at time, not what they might have wanted if they had their druthers. We've gone around this one a few times already. To paraphrase Churchill again, Our form of government is the worst, except for all the others.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-55484971464305642472017-02-01T17:08:02.297-08:002017-02-01T17:08:02.297-08:00Roughly speaking, the Mexican population was calcu...<a href="http://www.banderasnews.com/0707/eded-racesofmexico.htm" rel="nofollow">Roughly speaking</a>, the Mexican population was calculated to be 65% indigenous, and 35% non-indigenous (European, African, Asian.)Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-71286827780251664502017-02-01T17:02:25.183-08:002017-02-01T17:02:25.183-08:00No Indian savages at our borders now.No Indian savages at our borders now.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-83689576053484425762017-02-01T16:44:07.670-08:002017-02-01T16:44:07.670-08:00Why, yes, that George.
And the "Indian Savag...Why, yes, that George.<br /><br />And the "Indian Savages" are... well, nobody you've ever heard about. Some of their descendants are still giving you trouble around your frontiers, but fear no more, that Wall is coming.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-2787477569921388502017-02-01T09:09:17.222-08:002017-02-01T09:09:17.222-08:00The "he in the quote is King George????The "he in the quote is <a href="http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/14445/is-this-accusation-in-the-declaration-of-independence-factual" rel="nofollow">King George</a>???? erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-68108887421396346082017-02-01T08:51:23.567-08:002017-02-01T08:51:23.567-08:00Huh. I know I read the DoI in high school. Funny t...Huh. I know I read the DoI in high school. Funny that I didn't remember that particular phrase.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-23580363208575412982017-02-01T08:44:17.576-08:002017-02-01T08:44:17.576-08:00...
He has excited domestic insurrections among...... <br /><br /><br />He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.<br /><br />...<br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-68134510410247230312017-01-31T15:42:17.275-08:002017-01-31T15:42:17.275-08:00And if you think that the Founding Fathers intende...<i>And if you think that the Founding Fathers intended for Indians to eventually enjoy the rights of white men, you should go back and read the Declaration of Independence. I am sure you never have.</i><br /><br />Hey, Harry. I have an idea. Instead of making us wade through the DoI, which is obviously way too hard for our little, slow, brains, how about providing to us which part we haven't read?Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-9274168284613175582017-01-29T08:30:23.774-08:002017-01-29T08:30:23.774-08:00'... and Cotton Mather???? Where'd that co...'... and Cotton Mather???? Where'd that come from?'<br /><br />He was he outstanding intellectual leader of the colonists in his time, and the reference comes from Perry Miller, the outstanding historian of the intellectual traditions of the colonial period.<br /><br />You'd know that if you knew anything about American history.<br /><br />And if you think that the Founding Fathers intended for Indians to eventually enjoy the rights of white men, you should go back and read the Declaration of Independence. I am sure you never have.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-71993822415325757302017-01-25T14:40:18.387-08:002017-01-25T14:40:18.387-08:00Harry,
Okay, you found one guy from 1692 that pos...Harry,<br /><br />Okay, you found one guy from 1692 that possibly didn't think himself moral? Or something - I'm having a little trouble deciphering your last comment. Nonetheless, I've added "almost" to the following sentence in the post:<br /><br />"That argument pretty much never convinces anybody because almost everybody thinks they're moral."<br /><br />Because, yes, there are no doubt some exceptions.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.com