tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post8190807401212226685..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Quote About PCBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-1843533577765263222014-05-18T17:46:05.030-07:002014-05-18T17:46:05.030-07:00for anyone who believes in a moral setting where e...<i>for anyone who believes in a moral setting where every human being should be equally important in the eyes of the law</i><br /><br />No it's not because we are from achieving such a state. Maybe someday we'll achieve that, but it's certainly not the case in the USA today. Otherwise universities wouldn't be fighting to keep race admission policies in place.Susan's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02862667802025231163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-83914404760558145272014-05-18T14:26:15.603-07:002014-05-18T14:26:15.603-07:00AOG,
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I think we agree that segregation was a ...AOG,<br /><br />---<br />I think we agree that segregation was a bad state, but it's unclear if the current "cure" is any better for anyone (except morally preening upper middle class progressives).<br />---<br /><br />I believe the present situation is better not only for "morally preening" progressives, but for anyone who believes in a moral setting where every human being should be equally important in the eyes of the law.<br /><br />You do not need to be a progressive to fit in the above category. <br /><br /> Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-27001694519533365442014-05-18T11:52:45.328-07:002014-05-18T11:52:45.328-07:00erp;
I know, but I did find it amusing to have NP...erp;<br /><br />I know, but I did find it amusing to have NPR chime in that way on the subject. I think we agree that segregation was a bad state, but it's unclear if the current "cure" is any better for anyone (except morally preening upper middle class progressives).<br /><br />Clovis;<br /><br />Don't you mean how long it will be before NPR is longing for the good old days of Apartheid? It's their headline, not erp's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-16679745088178526812014-05-18T08:16:24.702-07:002014-05-18T08:16:24.702-07:00What worked?What worked?erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-2689153677111360912014-05-18T08:11:00.425-07:002014-05-18T08:11:00.425-07:00Hey, there it is Erp mad at me. For the record, I ...Hey, there it is Erp mad at me. For the record, I was only teasing you, it looks like it worked.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-77976413342880285432014-05-18T06:44:03.403-07:002014-05-18T06:44:03.403-07:00I wonder how long it will take you to learn to rea...I wonder how long it will take you to learn to read the English language with comprehension. So far a lot of your responses are to things not said nor inferred nor implied.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-17951293650191808062014-05-17T19:48:14.245-07:002014-05-17T19:48:14.245-07:00I wonder how long it will take for Erp to tell us ...I wonder how long it will take for Erp to tell us how she longs for the good old times of Apartheid in South Africa too...Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-37652400550563199432014-05-17T18:04:20.169-07:002014-05-17T18:04:20.169-07:00aog, I don't long for segregation, I think it ...aog, I don't long for segregation, I think it was a disgrace, but I think what we have now deliberately keeping people in custodial care by doling out the modern equivalent of colored beads and fire water in order to maintain power over them is far worse and what I long for is the day when all kids grow up in a family and community that loves and supports them. <br /><br />I have a friend here in Florida who's my age -- fast approaching 80. She grew up in rural Florida and went to a segregated school only a few miles away from my home. She is a lovely woman, well-spoken and well educated -- her children and grandchildren are professionals. <br /><br />If you think I'm conservative, you should hear her, especially her take on today's schools, welfare and pop culture in general and she's far from the only black person who grew up around here who thinks like she does.<br /><br />PS: If NPR is starting to agree with me, perhaps the recent blue moon was a heads up that times, they are a changing.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-28612329881882757432014-05-17T16:26:36.578-07:002014-05-17T16:26:36.578-07:00NPR backs erp's view.<a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/14/312555307/nostalgia-for-whats-been-lost-since-brown-v-board" rel="nofollow">NPR backs erp's view</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-7622770048125481422014-05-06T17:46:03.056-07:002014-05-06T17:46:03.056-07:00No, that's the point of the "to me" ...No, that's the point of the "to me" phrase. That qualifies the following as personal opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-77021018085870131292014-05-06T16:51:16.299-07:002014-05-06T16:51:16.299-07:00AOG,
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I expressed my personal opinion of your ...AOG,<br /><br />---<br />I expressed my personal opinion of your rhetorical points.<br />---<br />No, you clearly went beyond that by stating my points were "intended to support socializing the economy". You are attributing intentions to myself that I explicitly denied.<br /><br />Sure this kind of things happen in internet, just because people can type does not mean they can reason. "I type, therefore I troll" is our Zeitgeist.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-48426055694755502312014-05-06T15:16:05.904-07:002014-05-06T15:16:05.904-07:00I didn't decide what your arguments are, I exp...I didn't decide what your <b>arguments</b> are, I expressed my personal opinion of your <b>rhetorical</b> points.<br /><br />If why I take them to have that meaning isn't clear to you, then we different opinions. Welcome to the Internet. That kind of thing happens here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-5530172893295543492014-05-06T12:01:38.225-07:002014-05-06T12:01:38.225-07:00AOG,
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Those, to me, are clearly rhetorical poi...AOG,<br /><br />---<br />Those, to me, are clearly rhetorical points intended to support socializing the economy.<br />---<br />To repeat your own phrase, I don't think that's clear at all.<br /><br />In fact, I am pretty sure I did not mean that when stating those phrases. I also wrote very explicitly that "I am not interested in defending a socialized economy here".<br /><br />But if you decide now what my own arguments are, I better sit down here and watch you discussing with yourself, at least I won't waste my energy typing.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-53757764095901763142014-05-06T05:54:43.732-07:002014-05-06T05:54:43.732-07:00I don't think it's a straw man. You asked ...I don't think it's a straw man. You asked if I thought it was an unjustified abuse of government power and I answer yes, I think it is. While this specific case isn't full control of hiring decisions, the basis on which it was made seems to justify such in the future. What, in your view, prevents that given the basis for this intervention? I have a clear rule which is enforceable - don't intervene in adult consenting relationships. History shows again and again that if you relax that, you get the encroaching regulatory state we have here today, because there's always one more little offense that requires a little bit more goverment intrusion.<br /><br />Therefore I consider this intervention to worse than the problem it solved.<br /><br />"I think it is fairly clear I am not interested in defending a socialized economy here."<br /><br />I don't think that's clear at all.<br /><br />As for straw men, let's consider examples such as "your employer can decide if you can go to other jobs or not", and "your boss decided you were his serf". Those, to me, are clearly rhetorical points intended to support socializing the economy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-81638851003315550402014-05-06T04:51:34.824-07:002014-05-06T04:51:34.824-07:00AOG,
But I've been complaining of your long d...AOG,<br /><br />But I've been complaining of your long detailed answer too. <br /><br />Look how you've elected a straw man as argument:<br /><br />"I don't much like it, but to repeat myself yet again (because it just doesn't seem to ever reach you) I condier the alternative (government control of hiring) to be even worse."<br /><br />So, you pose complete freedom of the market versus complete control of it by government, when I think it is fairly clear I am not interested in defending a socialized economy here. I am just pointing to how some level of regulation was needed to (at least try to) protect the market from self-closure by too big players.<br /><br />And when I pressed you on the matter, you said you don't care. OK, I get you don't care, but that does not enlighten me a bit on why should I not care too. Neither me nor many of other citizens in your country who look to agree with antitrust being applied in such cases.<br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-16769850473760036002014-05-05T19:31:17.625-07:002014-05-05T19:31:17.625-07:00Whatever. You could scroll up to my comment at May...Whatever. You could scroll up to my comment at May 3, 2014 at 2:28 PM for long detailed answer, or you could pretend that "I don't care" is all I wrote. Your choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-38290004402131713212014-05-05T16:26:35.681-07:002014-05-05T16:26:35.681-07:00AOG,
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To answer your specific question - &quo...AOG,<br /><br /><br />---<br />To answer your specific question - " is it your good idea of free market one where your employer can decide if you can go to other jobs or not?".<br />---<br />I don't think an answer like "I don't care" actually qualify as an answer. Not a meaningful one at least.<br /><br /><br />---<br />Have I misunderstood you all along? Are you not actually asking questions but simply using that grammatical form to make rhetorical statements? <br />---<br />As I am making sincere questions to someone who is providing only rhetorical answers, that turns out to provide as much information as if I were doing only rhetorical questions. So it turns out you may be a bit right here...<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-44627070329161189912014-05-05T10:05:00.728-07:002014-05-05T10:05:00.728-07:00Clovis;
You brought up Steve Jobs. I commented on...Clovis;<br /><br />You brought up Steve Jobs. I commented on him only in response to you.<br /><br />My impression is that you are the one who sees himself in a bad position and therefore has to resort to claims of delusion and dementia.<br /><br />"after being contradicted by your own chosen example"<br /><br />Um, no. I wasn't contradicted by any of my examples. That was you, for instance with regard to Apple employees.<br /><br />"why to make an argument if you can only declare you don't care?"<br /><br />To answer your specific question - " is it your good idea of free market one where your employer can decide if you can go to other jobs or not?".<br /><br />Have I misunderstood you all along? Are you not actually asking questions but simply using that grammatical form to make rhetorical statements? If my answers are interfering with your enjoyment of this weblog, I can stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-14618277470447383752014-05-05T05:51:25.714-07:002014-05-05T05:51:25.714-07:00AOG,
I only wanted to answer a question yourself ...AOG,<br /><br />I only wanted to answer a question yourself posed in the near past, where *you* invoked Steve Jobs.<br /><br />I get the impression that, seeing yourself in a not so good position in this discussion, after being contradicted by your own chosen example, you digress: the topic needs to go to Hugo Chavez, Ukraine, whatever. See how you not even tried to counter my point, but only waived it away with another digression about your drinking buddies. Take that phrase you gave me: <br /><br />"Let me also state I consider this a very trivial abuse. I work in this industry, I've interviewed at Google, and I really cannot bring myself to care about this."<br /><br />So, why to make an argument if you can only declare you don't care? I believe I am the one being shut up here.<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-90508953177693768202014-05-05T05:26:17.481-07:002014-05-05T05:26:17.481-07:00Um, you invoked Steve Jobs. If you can simply brin...Um, you invoked Steve Jobs. If you can simply bring up someone other people admire for a rhetorical point, why shouldn't I do the same?<br /><br />I take it then you don't want me to provide context for my statements. I seem to recall you complaining when I didn't...<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-21718184177099203472014-05-04T21:42:54.820-07:002014-05-04T21:42:54.820-07:00AOG,
Really?
Hugo Chavez, Ukraine and Steve Jobs...AOG,<br /><br />Really?<br /><br />Hugo Chavez, Ukraine and Steve Jobs all in the same box in a comment about antitrust laws?<br /><br />At least you are consistent on invoking only dead guys, I give you that.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-56400550474617931122014-05-04T16:43:26.847-07:002014-05-04T16:43:26.847-07:00Ah, that's what you mean when you say you do c...Ah, that's what you mean when you say you do consider other viewpoints. You just consider them delusional.<br /><br />And now we have the rule that if I respond to more than one of your questions in a single comment, it's a sign of dementia.<br /><br />"Shut up", he explained.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-2859652031401457952014-05-04T11:04:21.379-07:002014-05-04T11:04:21.379-07:00AOG,
I must tell you, reading your answer above I...AOG,<br /><br />I must tell you, reading your answer above I thought it was Erp writing it.<br /><br />Delusional and unrelated topics wrapped up together, missing the whole point of the initial conversation. Gosh, age is getting you faster than her.<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-58062220630605834262014-05-04T07:22:55.804-07:002014-05-04T07:22:55.804-07:00Clovis;
I hope you at least agree there is a gray...Clovis;<br /><br /><i>I hope you at least agree there is a gray area here.</i><br /><br />I hope you at least agree that if it's a grey area, it counts as a hint.<br /><br /><i>Do you really believe this is an unjustified abuse of govt power?</i><br /><br />Another leading question because it omits scale. For instance, a apparatchik using his credentials to get an extra meal from a government contractor is an unjustified abuse of government power, and so is creating a deliberate famine in the Ukraine. I do think this action was an unjustified abuse of government power worse than the former and not as bad as the latter.<br /><br />As for Jobs, he's not my poster boy. I would say, however, he's a better poster boy than Hugo Chavez, who is much admired among the Modern American Left. I find that far more inexplicable than admiration for Jobs.Susan's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02862667802025231163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-60992229877091987492014-05-04T05:23:16.413-07:002014-05-04T05:23:16.413-07:00AOG,
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No, it's a natural result of not con...AOG,<br /><br />---<br />No, it's a natural result of not considering other viewpoints.<br />---<br />Ouch, that was unfair.<br /><br />We've agreed on very little in many months of chats, and yet you are probably the person I've directed most of my questions up to now. The fact that I may not immediately agree, or understand, your viewpoints does not mean I do not consider them.<br /><br /><br />---<br />Yes you did. "it is the same govt. antitrust laws you despise that were used to stop such a scheme". That's precisely the government reaching in to control hiring decisions.<br />---<br />I hope you at least agree there is a gray area here. The govt is not telling them who, how or when they should hire. It is just telling them it is not OK to conspire to stiffle the dynamics of salaries. Do you really believe this is an unjustified abuse of govt power?<br /><br /><br />---<br />Yes, actually. I spoke to a couple of Apple employees and this came up and no one cared. We rapidly moved on to talk of more important things, like what's the best whiskey you can get in Ireland.<br />---<br />I see, you probably had too many whiskey shots to actually think clearly.<br /><br />---<br />[Clovis] At no moment I declared you were the one who said that about Jobs<br />Then why ask me about it? How am I to know when the quotes you ask me about are mine or just random ones that don't apply to me?<br />---<br />When I was a kid at school, the teacher would tell me this is about context.<br /><br />Steve Jobs was a public persona very well regarded by everyone. It is widely known he has set standards. He is taken as a role model in just so many levels. Hence, when I referenced him as a poster boy, it should be pretty clear I was not necessarily saying you explicitly said so. And I really don't think this is my mistake as an English outsider.<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.com