tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post6231631963921499368..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Conjecture Explaining Downward Pitch Drift of A Cappella Singing GroupsBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-11243173992655792242016-10-11T21:54:26.134-07:002016-10-11T21:54:26.134-07:00Clovis wrote: "You can actually design tests ...Clovis wrote: "<i>You can actually design tests for your hypothesis.</i>"<br /><br />Yes. But it's a bit more work than I'm up for. It seems that someone, somewhere must have done similar experiments, but I can't seem to find them. My guess is that they were done before the Internet so google doesn't find them.<br /><br />Clovis wrote: "<i>...greater human presence...</i>"<br /><br />My overall experience is that the bigger the group, the more likely it is that they'll end up flat. Only anecdotal though.<br /><br />Clovis wrote: "<i>...chorus end up sharper...</i>"<br /><br />Quartets are interesting (and the most fun as far as I'm concerned) because each of the 4 people are constantly reacting to each other and one guy significantly missing a note in one direction or the other can trigger quite an unpredictable recovery sequence that can easily overwhelm the flatness thang.<br /><br />However, a few things keep it from going unstable or spiraling down any flatter than it does. The first is absolute pitch. If I'm supposed to sing a C, I know reasonably closely what a C is supposed to sound like. As the group gets flatter from the correct notes, those with the absolute pitch capability (sometimes called "perfect" pitch even though nothing is ever quite perfect) are torn between trying to align with others and wanting to sing the perfect pitch (even if they'd sing a hair below it).<br /><br />Also, because of my recording experience (and perhaps because I want to sound alive, excited, etc.) I try to always sound to myself a hair sharp because I know that will get me to the right pitch (or at least closer) externally. I don't know anybody else who does that though.<br /><br />Clovis wrote: "<i>I suppose it takes more energy to sustain sharper notes than flatter ones (does it?).</i>"<br /><br />It probably does on average, especially when singers are near the upper limit of a given register. And that is the most common put forth reason for flatness. It doesn't necessarily explain why (in my experience) that quartets don't go as flat as larger groups and indeed it's why I've offered my alternative explanation.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-44745427812758114332016-10-11T19:49:39.588-07:002016-10-11T19:49:39.588-07:00Quite an interesting take, Bret.
You can actually...Quite an interesting take, Bret.<br /><br />You can actually design tests for your hypothesis. Make a lone person to make a choir with pre-recorded (or computer generated) singers. Then substitute the computer for another singer and repeat. Introduce yet another human and repeat. And so on.<br /><br />The pattern of flattening must keep some correlation with greater human presence if your self-coordination theory is right (as an extreme example, we can discard yours if the flattening keeps happening with only one human singer). The other theories (humidity, people getting tired, etc) can get tested in such a setting too.<br /><br />Needless to say, it ought to be an experiment with very many trials to take in account the large variations any single human singer can induce to the group - I take, for example, that the cases when the chorus end up sharper may be due to some particular inger inducing it somehow.<br /><br /><br />I will risk another explanation, not necessarily in contradiction with yours: I suppose it takes more energy to sustain sharper notes than flatter ones (does it?). Thinking like we do in statistical mechanics, that alone would be reason enough for the final effect, even if you do not pinpoint the particular path the system takes to do so (or the many possible particular paths).<br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.com