tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post7528922617244432583..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Intuition, Irrationality and the End of CivilizationBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-44436818771471691372018-01-05T12:11:31.237-08:002018-01-05T12:11:31.237-08:00Erp,
Yep, I agree the Israelis can choose what ci...Erp,<br /><br />Yep, I agree the Israelis can choose what city they want to call a Capital. And I couldn't care less which ones it is.<br /><br />How about you telling me what else I believe that I don't?Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-76528870928667593152018-01-05T12:06:57.085-08:002018-01-05T12:06:57.085-08:00Clovis, I used Jerusalem as an example. There is n...Clovis, I used Jerusalem as an example. There is no issue. The capital of Israel is whatever they say it is, not what U.N. members declare it to be.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-63007540170017054892018-01-05T11:58:30.135-08:002018-01-05T11:58:30.135-08:00Bret, both for somewhat the same reason. Even tho...Bret, both for somewhat the same reason. Even though you're not really of the same generation, you are both victims of the massive demonizing of conservatism as being racist, sexist, etc. and seeing support of our traditional values as populism, not realizing (or believing) that the 20th C. to date was orchestrated by supporters of the Noble Experiment beginning with Wilson and continued to the so-call great recession which caused Obama's election and to this very day.<br /><br />It's not cool to be conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, i.e., not left. Can't say right because now fascism/nazism is designated as right wing even though both have socialism written into their name.<br /><br />I imagine few of your and probably none of Clovis', friends, relatives, colleagues, schoolmates, etc. are anything, but progs of more or less fervor.<br /><br />The further you get away from the working classes, the fewer not of the left you'll encounter and by the time you get to people like you and Clovis, i.e., one of my geniuses, the fewer people you will know who even have a fleeting notion that one world isn't a good idea -- that "teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony" and "equality" of results ala Harrison Bergeron shouldn't be our goal.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-50251684743529997122018-01-05T11:48:13.899-08:002018-01-05T11:48:13.899-08:00Erp,
Well, maybe you finally stroke a chord. I am...Erp,<br /><br />Well, maybe you finally stroke a chord. I am very conflicted about the whole Universe, and last time I checked, the US was part of it.<br /><br />But about Israel's capital? Erp, I couldn't care less for the whole Israel-Palestine thing these days.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-34422946354077739842018-01-05T11:36:23.607-08:002018-01-05T11:36:23.607-08:00erp,
I'M very conflicted about the U.S. - why...erp,<br /><br />I'M very conflicted about the U.S. - why would Clovis be? :-)Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-49452705479965608832018-01-05T11:31:52.281-08:002018-01-05T11:31:52.281-08:00Clovis, IMO you are very conflicted about the U.S....Clovis, IMO you are very conflicted about the U.S.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-7362712032274835102018-01-05T11:27:34.344-08:002018-01-05T11:27:34.344-08:00Bret, what defeat in Vietnam?
Clovis, I am wri...Bret, what defeat in Vietnam? <br /><br />Clovis, I am writing a book.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-42300552657961242632018-01-05T11:04:56.524-08:002018-01-05T11:04:56.524-08:00Clovis,
I don't think so. It seemed much more...Clovis,<br /><br />I don't think so. It seemed much more psychological - we felt cast adrift and didn't know our place in the world. Previous events such as our defeat in the Vietnam war started it, but the resignation of Nixon was the final blow.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-26657386374247363102018-01-05T10:53:08.621-08:002018-01-05T10:53:08.621-08:00Bret,
The malady was not about economics?Bret,<br /><br />The malady was not about economics?Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-67192702448634669202018-01-05T10:49:56.795-08:002018-01-05T10:49:56.795-08:00Clovis wrote: "the economic crisis in the 70&...Clovis wrote: "<i>the economic crisis in the 70's had nothing to do with Nixon's impeachment.</i>"<br /><br />I agree that it didn't directly, but that's not what I said anyway.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-70884006197058428312018-01-05T10:40:06.768-08:002018-01-05T10:40:06.768-08:00Erp,
---
You, even though you won't admit it,...Erp,<br /><br />---<br />You, even though you won't admit it, would like to see the U.S. taken down a peg as would most of the rest of the world who voted against Jerusalem in the U.N.<br />---<br /><br />I find it a mystery, this necessity you have of making up things about what I supposedly think. It is baffling. What else do you think I secretly wish for? A world united under a hammer and sickle? <br /><br />Maybe you should start writing a book, or maybe a long post, where you can better exercize all that creativity...Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-50983866446527276992018-01-05T10:33:49.089-08:002018-01-05T10:33:49.089-08:00Not in the same way. We've all had years of e...Not in the same way. We've all had years of experience in filtering sources, etc. You, even though you won't admit it, would like to see the U.S. taken down a peg as would most of the rest of the world who voted against Jerusalem in the U.N.<br /><br />If we are like Brazil and the rest of the banana republics, it's because instead of you all trying to follow our way to assimilation, peace and prosperity, we are being led into looking for the easy way of socialism to divisiveness, unrest and poverty. erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-77525389553741473152018-01-05T10:27:11.199-08:002018-01-05T10:27:11.199-08:00Bret,
AFAIK, the economic crisis in the 70's ...Bret,<br /><br />AFAIK, the economic crisis in the 70's had nothing to do with Nixon's impeachment. But I will probably defer to whatever you say about it, I wasn't even alive back then.<br /><br /><br />---<br />Is that a good thing?<br />As much as I dislike our politics, I don't think I'd trade them for yours.<br />---<br />My point is that you already did. <br /><br />---<br />Clovis wrote: "...you may well elect me President. That's fine, I would like the job!"<br /><br />Really? Not me - it's pretty much the last job in the world I'd want. I'd prefer to be a sewer worker.<br />---<br />I would hate the job, they probably would kill me down here. So I lied to Skipper, but that's fine, he doesn't care.<br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-15846368520828851502018-01-05T10:17:36.879-08:002018-01-05T10:17:36.879-08:00Erp,
---
Clovis, you don't have the foggiest ...Erp,<br /><br />---<br />Clovis, you don't have the foggiest idea what's true and what's made up. <br />---<br /><br />Have you ever considered the possibility that's true for us all?<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-56951490338131878572018-01-05T09:57:24.135-08:002018-01-05T09:57:24.135-08:00Clovis, you don't have the foggiest idea what&...Clovis, you don't have the foggiest idea what's true and what's made up.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-76905271127699268432018-01-05T09:56:07.340-08:002018-01-05T09:56:07.340-08:00Clovis wrote: "I don't think Nixon's ...Clovis wrote: "<i>I don't think Nixon's impeachment had the least impact in the real lives of US citizens either, back then.</i>"<br /><br />Whoa! I think you're pretty far off there.<br /><br />From my perspective, the United States pretty much fell apart for the rest of the 70s with its citizens walking around in a daze (see President Carter's "Malaise" Speech in 1979) and we never completely recovered.<br />Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-15247906484580098662018-01-05T09:48:47.651-08:002018-01-05T09:48:47.651-08:00Clovis wrote: "...you may well elect me Presi...Clovis wrote: "<i>...you may well elect me President. That's fine, I would like the job!</i>"<br /><br />Really? Not me - it's pretty much the last job in the world I'd want. I'd prefer to be a sewer worker.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-80421482339988270552018-01-05T09:46:41.805-08:002018-01-05T09:46:41.805-08:00Clovis wrote: "...we just impeached a preside...Clovis wrote: "<i>...we just impeached a president for far less than her replacement has done.</i>"<br /><br />Is that a good thing?<br /><br />As much as I dislike our politics, I don't think I'd trade them for yours.<br /><br />Indeed, the special prosecutor and impeachment stuff here, to me, unfortunately makes our politics more like yours. I don't think that's a good thing.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-13398139505120658112018-01-05T09:32:15.291-08:002018-01-05T09:32:15.291-08:00Skipper,
---
Consequently, the damage to our inst...Skipper,<br /><br />---<br />Consequently, the damage to our institutions of conducting investigations of sitting presidents causes far more damage than not doing so. <br />---<br /><br />BTW, I find it hard to square that one with reality. <br /><br />Clinton was fried by prosecutors throughout half his mandate, and the US economy was booming. Trump is being fried since even before his mandate, and the economy... is booming. I don't think Nixon's impeachment had the least impact in the real lives of US citizens either, back then.<br /><br />What damage is this one you guys keep talking about?<br /><br />Furthermore, since the moral fiber of Americans is no longer what it used to be - you guys are a bunch of spoiled eternal teenager nowadays - the only certainty about impeachment proceeding is that it will only work when both chambers are in the hands of the opposite party. And when that happens, the president will be impeached by far less than whatever Clintons and Trumps have done.<br /><br />[I sure know, down here, where we never had any moral fiber to speak of anyway, we just impeached a president for far less than her replacement has done.]<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-65249030738495037042018-01-05T08:44:46.530-08:002018-01-05T08:44:46.530-08:00Skipper,
Calling you an hypocrite carries as much...Skipper,<br /><br />Calling you an hypocrite carries as much consequence as calling you a liar, which is none, so I won't ask your forgiveness for that either (also, I believe that charge).<br /><br />And I see no point at all in using quotes to see what exactly you typed, in order to make correct statements. You don't expect that even from the President of the United States, why should I oblige?<br /><br /><br />Your theory - that the Dossier was concocted to justify wiretappings - won't ever be refuted, nor confirmed. People reached the point where truth wouldn't be recognized even if rubbed in their faces.<br /><br />Both theories in regard out there - collusion, or DNC plot to subvert the election - suffer form the hurdle of hindsight. I don't see any of them as most probably true.<br /><br />Back then, the DNC did not expect Trump to be a serious contender. You need to remember that, at some point, Trump trailed Clinton for 12 points. By the Hollywood Access tape, most people, including the ones at Trump campaign, thought he was dead. Obama and Clinton would hardly give themselves the trouble of playing a Nixon just to get to that loser. Makes little sense.<br /><br />Also, though Trump Jr. was stupid to deal directly with the Russians looking for 'dirt on Clinton', I don't think there was an orchestrated enough act going on to deserve the 'collusion' term. There were shady things going on - people inside campaign's kernel had their doubts and uneasiness, to the extent Flynn thought better to lie, and Bannon thought it 'treasonous' - but I doubt they affected the election in any effective way. As they knew they lied, Trump thought better to fire Comey, but more due to his gigantic idiocy and ego than for believing they would find Putin's hands all over the campaign.<br /><br />I may well be wrong, but for what it is worth (which is nothing), that's my take.<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-81792404957175332092018-01-05T08:03:33.255-08:002018-01-05T08:03:33.255-08:00If Hillary indeed was a criminal e-mailer, Obama c...<i>If Hillary indeed was a criminal e-mailer, Obama could have pardoned her anytime he wanted.</i><br /><br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_States" rel="nofollow">I don't think that is true.</a><br /><br />I'm not speaking in the sense that he didn't have the power to offer a pardon, but rather that the pardon is predicated upon guilt. For him to offer her a pardon would have been an admission that she was, in fact, guilty of the accusations.<br /><br />Which would mean two things: she would never serve time in prison, and her prospects in the presidential election would have sunk like a greased safe.<br /><br />Just so with Trump. Yes, I suppose he could pardon himself, but doing so would admit to guilt of impeachable offenses. By exercising a power of his office, he would remove himself from it, while avoiding potential imprisonment.<br /><br /><i>(it looks like Bannon bets on money laundering)</i><br /><br />To be perfectly clear, on the part of Trump's children. And it is surpassingly difficult to figure out how Bannon would have access to that kind of information.<br /><br /><i>And he ought to start doing his own framings too, I am looking forward to see a lot of Dems, Clintons included, in prison as soon as possible. It looks like the DoJ is already turning the stoves on.</i><br /><br />I think she is guilty of far more than reckless disregard and deliberate circumvention of FOIA requirements. There's absolutely no way to account for the Clinton's income without them selling access.*<br /><br />Trump should offer her and Bill a pardon.<br /><br />If my theory turns out true — that there is no defensible theory underlying this whole Russian collusion thing — then there are a great many people who deserve far worse than what should happen to them. (And a great many beyond that who should admit they completely suspended their critical thinking skills.)<br /><br />But subjecting them to what they have likely earned will cause far more damage than just letting it all go.<br /><br />*If Trump had done a fraction of what the Clinton's have been up to, he would have been long gone. That makes complete sense. Not.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-57648165782962971242018-01-05T07:39:17.417-08:002018-01-05T07:39:17.417-08:00[Clovis:] I would usually ask your pardon for call...<i>[Clovis:] I would usually ask your pardon for calling you a liar. But you absolutely convinced me that inconsequential lies are OK.</i><br /><br />Remember, you called me a hypocrite: <i>[Clovis:] Right, I can link you straight, and I just did. All this pick and choosing of which lie is worse than other is just the kind of hypocrisy I was talking about. </i><br /><br /><br />And I never said inconsequential lies are OK: <i>[Hey Skipper:] What you are calling hypocrisy is merely the exercise of discernment. Some lies are, indeed, worse, and have more impact, than others. Nearly every lie Trump has told since becoming President are both obvious and trivial. By definition, that makes them inconsequential. </i><br /><br />You should embrace the power of the direct quote.<br /><br /><i>I was also convinced by Bret that a US President is, and ought to be, above the law.</i><br /><br />You missed Bret's point. Accusations and investigations can be motivated by political animus rather than facts. Take the Trump collusion investigation as an example, <a href="https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268928/trump-collusion-conspiracy-theory-falls-apart-daniel-greenfield" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="https://nypost.com/2018/01/04/democrats-dishonest-scramble-to-disown-the-trump-dossier/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455105/fusion-gps-steele-dossier-collusion-narrative-falls-apart?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=180104_Jolt&utm_term=Jolt" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and, at the NYT, <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Consequently, the damage to our institutions of conducting investigations of sitting presidents causes far more damage than not doing so. <br /><br />If the President has behaved unacceptably, then there are institutional remedies for that which don't require endless witch hunts that destroy peoples lives, and increasingly give the whiff of coup. Moreover, the threat of punitive prosecution gives every incentive to circumvent periodic elections.<br /><br />So many self-diagnosed right thinking people seem to have taken as a quasi-religious mission the removal of Trump to prevent the damage they just know he will do.<br /><br />Yet after a year of Trump, what policy decisions has he made that are out of bounds?<br /><br />Might it be that the right-thinking people are doing far more damage than Trump ever could? After all, if the truth of the Trump dossier is as increasingly appears to be the case, it stands as probably the most awful event in American politics, and it will be down to the people who completely suspended normal judgment, and will never be held accountable.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-60295034789504281472018-01-05T07:08:57.874-08:002018-01-05T07:08:57.874-08:00Skipper,
I would usually ask your pardon for cal...Skipper,<br /><br /><br />I would usually ask your pardon for calling you a liar. But you absolutely convinced me that inconsequential lies are OK, so if I keep lying about you being a liar, you may well elect me President. That's fine, I would like the job!<br /><br />I was also convinced by Bret that a US President is, and ought to be, above the law. If he can kill anyone he wants - and I guess he indeed can, after all, US citizens are being killed by drone these days with presidential orders - and pardon anyone he wants, I just concluded this whole discussion just doesn't make sense.<br /><br />If Hillary indeed was a criminal e-mailer, Obama could have pardoned her anytime he wanted. If Trump indeed obstructed justice, or had a fling with Putin, or whatever else they say (it looks like Bannon bets on money laundering), he can pardon himself - and any of his underlings so unjustly framed by Obama's FBI. And he ought to start doing his own framings too, I am looking forward to see a lot of Dems, Clintons included, in prison as soon as possible. It looks like the DoJ is already <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/05/justice-department-investigating-clinton-foundation-over-pay-to-play-allegations.html" rel="nofollow"> turning the stoves on</a>.<br /><br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-69250316789959110932018-01-04T11:50:20.792-08:002018-01-04T11:50:20.792-08:00[Bret:] LOL. I don't think I've ever seen ...<i>[Bret:] LOL. I don't think I've ever seen anybody who could torture logic more effectively! :-)</i><br /><br />That's not a matter of logic, but rather of meaning. Of what use is an obvious lie? Does an obvious lie even exist as a lie?<br /><br /><i>I thought the basic theory of the reason for collusion is this.</i><br /><br /><i>Trump wanted to win the election.</i> This is a given, true of all presidential candidates, and therefore has no explanatory power. That is, the set of all presidential candidates and that of those who want to win is identical.<br /> <br /><i>* Having Russia (somehow) throw the election to him is to his benefit<br />* Russia wants to damage the US</i><br /><br />Fine. Now explain how Russia tilting the election in Trump's favor requires any cooperation Trump. What would Trump need to do for the Russians that they couldn't already do for themselves? That is the biggest hole in this entire collusion schlamozzle -- there is no quid. Without that, this collusion melodrama collapses on itself.<br /><br />Compare with an actual instance of collusion, Journolist. Many journalists agreed in secret to push story lines favoring Obama and suppressing those that weren't, with the goal of nudging on-the-bubble voters to Obama's way. No single journalist could do it, but working in concert, they could. So they colluded in pursuit of a common goal. Or, Donna Brazile providing town hall meeting questions to Hillary. They cooperated surreptitiously in pursuit of a common goal. In both cases the "which" was something either the parties couldn't have provided on their own.<br /><br /><i>Therefore, it makes sense for Trump and Russia to work together in order to make Trump president.</i><br /><br />The conclusion doesn't follow, because you left the most important element out.<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-89789281000545881342018-01-03T11:43:25.058-08:002018-01-03T11:43:25.058-08:00Hey Skipper,
You've probably already hit upon...Hey Skipper,<br /><br />You've probably already hit upon this, but I didn't see it.<br /><br />I thought the basic theory of the reason for collusion is this.<br />* Trump wanted to win the election<br /> * Having Russia (somehow) throw the election to him is to his benefit<br />* Russia wants to damage the US<br /> * Russia thinks that having (in their opinion) a total buffoon like Trump as president will damage the US<br /> * Even if they don't succeed, they'll want to sow as much anti-Hillary discord as possible<br />* Therefore, it makes sense for Trump and Russia to work together in order to make Trump president.<br /><br />So, all that then has to be shown is:<br />* The above is true<br />* That the Trump team and Russia did indeed meet and plan together how to make Trump president illegally<br /><br />For collusion, it only needs to be shown that it was planned (together). It doesn't need to show that anything actually happened or that it was effective or that he wouldn't have won anyway. Right?<br /><br />I haven't yet seen sufficient evidence of the above but perhaps Mueller has or will have it.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.com