tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post8509387755007986952..comments2023-10-31T03:18:26.963-07:00Comments on Great Guys Weblog: Not a Perfect PlaceBrethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comBlogger189125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-60188542940932324292014-07-13T20:26:30.302-07:002014-07-13T20:26:30.302-07:00http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/world/middleeast...http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/world/middleeast/us-sees-risks-in-assisting-a-compromised-iraqi-force.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news<br /><br />Throw a few bombs down and everything will be fine. John McCain said so.Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-33883601905697574102014-07-11T13:12:40.643-07:002014-07-11T13:12:40.643-07:00Erp,
What part of your positions are that clear? ...Erp,<br /><br />What part of your positions are that clear? The ones about Romans, or the ones about dogs? I like the part about a harem though...<br />Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-85301642891776286172014-07-11T12:11:08.584-07:002014-07-11T12:11:08.584-07:00Clovis, that's it from me. I have made my pos...Clovis, that's it from me. I have made my positions painfully clear, you choose to disbelieve them as is your privilege.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-5754920588791521032014-07-11T11:51:10.329-07:002014-07-11T11:51:10.329-07:00Erp,
---
Clovis doesn't have the tools to und...Erp,<br /><br />---<br />Clovis doesn't have the tools to understand the underlying reasons for our objecting to socialism. Since lefties hold riches to be highest goal, he thinks we object to paying the taxes to maintain the welfare state.<br />---<br /><br />I am not sure why you accuse the less well-off person in the room of being focused only in riches, Erp. Since you have a physicist soon, I expected more from you: do you think he went to Physics for the money? If not, why would you think I did?<br /><br />By the way, I do think you object paying taxes to maintain the welfare state, but that has nothing to do with my "highets goals" in life.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-38980340982699318382014-07-10T07:37:40.594-07:002014-07-10T07:37:40.594-07:00Totally right aog. Same problem with all that'...Totally right aog. Same problem with all that's gone wrong since the 60's. Movies, TV shows, talk shows, reality shows, comic books, magazines, college courses, public school propaganda 24/7 starting in nursery school, rock stars, etc. Everything pointing to the leftwing agenda's to perfect us and demonizing any and all opposition.<br /><br />They got it now.<br /><br />Let's see if Harry goes to Texas to embrace some of those kids Obama has imported to stir the waters of compassion.<br /><br />Clovis doesn't have the tools to understand the underlying reasons for our objecting to socialism. Since lefties hold riches to be highest goal, he thinks we object to paying the taxes to maintain the welfare state. Stealing our money is the least of it. It's stealing our humanity and putting us all on the same level as women in a harem. Remember the fable of the city dog and the country dog. The country dog lived free and may have had many travails, but the city dog paid for his luxuries with a collar around his neck.<br /><br />The nitwits who opt for the collar have been seduced, no less than Romans of old, by games, bread and chocolate upgraded to "free" credit cards, cell phones and passes when they assault and threaten their fellow citizens.<br /><br />It won't end well.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-21447644653832803612014-07-10T07:14:20.921-07:002014-07-10T07:14:20.921-07:00Skipper;
I disagree with you twice.
First is NV ...Skipper;<br /><br />I disagree with you twice.<br /><br />First is NV would have reconstituted the Viet Cong. I think the 1972 invasion is clear evidence that the NV leadership had given up on that approach. They were not magic, they had limits just as much as we did. The Viet Cong were gone and weren't coming back.<br /><br />Second, I think the USA would have had the domestic will to stick it out <i>absent the agitprop of Old Media</i>. I consider it much more a failure directly caused by the MAL than anything intrinsic to democracies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-10739906470543193382014-07-09T20:50:07.395-07:002014-07-09T20:50:07.395-07:00AOG:
You are right and wrong at the same time.
...AOG:<br /><br />You are right and wrong at the same time. <br /><br />Had we remained in South Vietnam, the North could have reconstituted the Vietcong, and its continual death through a thousand cuts, and there wouldn't have been anything we could go about it.<br /><br />Yet had we remained there, or at least honored our agreement to not let a member of the UN get wiped off the map, our airpower alone would have broken the back of the 1972 invasion.<br /><br />(Which, BTW, shows where Harry's rants about airpower -- he hasn't learned from the history of the Italian campaign during WWII -- go right off the rails.)<br /><br />Since the US is a democracy, we have a weakness with respect to collectivist totalitarianisms. <br /><br />Yes, I know, I repeat myself.<br /><br />Aside from moral, or even strategical considerations, US voters would not have stood for the continued slow leak of a Vietcong insurgency.<br /><br />Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-26107109923686005892014-07-09T14:56:11.620-07:002014-07-09T14:56:11.620-07:00Skipper;
Where you go wrong is in looking at the ...Skipper;<br /><br />Where you go wrong is in looking at the Viet Cong supply situation. They were de facto wiped out in the Tet Offensive and were not subsequently significant. The 1972 invasion was just that, a full scale invasion. That's, unlike guerrilla operations, is expensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-19865120756705826972014-07-09T12:18:03.493-07:002014-07-09T12:18:03.493-07:00[AOG:] We'll just have to disagree. My readi...<i>[AOG:] We'll just have to disagree. My reading of the strategic situation is that the invasion represented such a high cost to the North Vietnamese state that, had it failed, it would have been a very long time before any similar effort could have been mounted, long enough fo the economic differentials to take hold and make South Vietnam reasonably secure. </i><br /><br />The issue here is logistics. Outside powers (North Vietnamese, China, Russia) were able to sustain the Vietcong on about twelve and a half tons of supplies per day.<br /><br />As our war on drugs has shown, it simply isn't possible, given the length and nature of the border, to keep such a small amount out. <br /><br />That is why, so long as communist powers and their collectivist lackeys in the West were happy to wipe a member of the UN from the map, there was no real way, given how democracies work, to sustain the fight long enough.<br /><br /><i>[Clovis:] I also find it intriguing that, for someone who usually defend self-reliance as a way of life, you look very cozy with the idea of indefinitely supporting a shaky country. </i> <br /><br /><i>[Harry:] So, air power and logistics, which had failed spectacularly to help the SVN government govern in 1963-70, along with a huge land army, would magically have worked all by themselves in 1972? </i><br /><br />Why did air power, logistics, and a huge land army fail to help the South Vietnamese govern between 1963 and 1970?<br /><br /><i>If you are going to claim 'uncaused effects,' then it is silly to claim the US 'supported' democracy in those countries, since it did not, but they turned, more or less, democratic anyway. </i> <br /><br />That has to be the most spectacular non sequitur I have read in quite some time.<br /><br />Refer to my question just above, and maybe, just maybe you will figure out why.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-24814437408715253142014-07-09T09:27:56.162-07:002014-07-09T09:27:56.162-07:00No. Again, you seem to have no idea that history h...No. Again, you seem to have no idea that history happened between 1968 and 1972 and that the situation in 1972 was utterly different from that in 1968, as I noted quite explicitly above. I would also note that given the utter defeat of the Viet Cong in 1968 your "failed spectacularly" is ahistorical. Your jibes about not knowing history are once again projection on your part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-74033564034397067692014-07-08T18:22:30.043-07:002014-07-08T18:22:30.043-07:00So, air power and logistics, which had failed spec...So, air power and logistics, which had failed spectacularly to help the SVN government govern in 1963-70, along with a huge land army, would magically have worked all by themselves in 1972?<br /><br /><br /><br />Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-82557014198867215682014-07-08T18:15:42.917-07:002014-07-08T18:15:42.917-07:00'Made shorter by your ignorance. Add Jordan, L...'Made shorter by your ignorance. Add Jordan, Lebanon, Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan, Colombia, and India, (which needs striking from your hackneyed nonsense above.)'<br /><br />Jordan is democratic? Really?<br /><br />If you are going to claim 'uncaused effects,' then it is silly to claim the US 'supported' democracy in those countries, since it did not, but they turned, more or less, democratic anyway.<br /><br />But until they did, the US supported the antidemocratic regimes there (except in India, which was always demi]ocratic but was opposed by the US until recently)Harry Eagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196202758858876402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-26537442680161549582014-07-05T10:17:27.926-07:002014-07-05T10:17:27.926-07:00The left's contempt for the masses isn't u...The left's contempt for the masses isn't unjustified because the masses fall for their schtick time and again.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-16864354906189484152014-07-05T09:36:30.199-07:002014-07-05T09:36:30.199-07:00erp;
Yet, is that contempt unjustified? This kind...erp;<br /><br />Yet, is that contempt unjustified? This kind of thing seems to work for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-84265704881036156122014-07-05T07:45:36.452-07:002014-07-05T07:45:36.452-07:00Sorry, I forgot.
Re: WMD -- hilariously now that...Sorry, I forgot. <br /><br />Re: WMD -- hilariously now that Obama is waging war in Iraq, they've resurfaced as a threat!!!!<br /><br />The left's contempt for the masses is boundless.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-34570982927523378862014-07-05T06:56:26.702-07:002014-07-05T06:56:26.702-07:00Clovis;
When you're reduced to sputtering ad ...Clovis;<br /><br />When you're reduced to sputtering ad hominems, my work is done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-87140353091585286532014-07-05T06:55:18.318-07:002014-07-05T06:55:18.318-07:00Your indoctrination leaves no room for even recogn...Your indoctrination leaves no room for even recognizing another point of view. My comment was about this statement ...<i>net benefit to the USA</i> and why it would matter to us whatever their government could or would be?<br /><br />We went to Vietnam to fulfill our commitment to SEATO and went to Iraq after exhaustively getting everyone on board to stop further attacks on our soil. WMD which were a major obsession in the media up till then suddenly became an object of Bush's delusion. Then came all the other lies and spins, e.g., looting of Iraqi museums.<br /><br />We didn't use or need Iraqi oil and we certainly had nothing to gain in either Korea, Vietnam or Iraq.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-45075889166193386302014-07-05T06:34:51.495-07:002014-07-05T06:34:51.495-07:00AOG,
---
I suspect that once erp realized it was ...AOG,<br /><br />---<br />I suspect that once erp realized it was my comment, she realized this, but best to be clear.<br />---<br />In translation: "I hope the herd mentality of my ideological group saves me from further questions".<br /><br />And judging from what I've seen up to here, you are right to hope for that.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-81038199780551713422014-07-04T21:57:31.311-07:002014-07-04T21:57:31.311-07:00Clovis;
There is at least one person with militar...Clovis;<br /><br /><i>There is at least one person with military experience, in particular with airstrike experience, that looks to disagree with you on that point. </i><br /><br />Yes. Therefore ... what?<br /><br />As for ranting, I would judge my comments here neither particularly long nor angry.<br /><br />As for the alternate history South Vietnam, my comment was predicated on the presumption that the governance would evolve in roughly the same way as in South Korea. I suspect that once erp realized it was my comment, she realized this, but best to be clear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-70967956194647874842014-07-04T10:30:06.120-07:002014-07-04T10:30:06.120-07:00The left was interested in communist expansion, so...The left was interested in communist expansion, so naturally they sabotaged the war effort which led to an unfortunate short-term result in Vietnam, but luckily for them, they saw the error of their ways and have turned quite anti-socialist entrepreneurish notwithstanding their name.<br /><br />Don't know what you mean by the American right? Congress which does the funding was controlled by the usual lefties (many of whom are still there, if you can believe that) and cut off funds.<br /><br />Too bad the house now controlled by RINO's doesn't cut off funds for Obama's attack on the Constitution.erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-9307390047037600422014-07-04T09:17:55.766-07:002014-07-04T09:17:55.766-07:00Ranting, by Oxford:
NOUN
(usually rantings)
A lo...Ranting, by Oxford:<br /><br />NOUN<br /><br />(usually rantings)<br />A long, angry, and impassioned speech<br /><br /><br />I detect some angry feelings towards the MAL from you, AOG. Even this acronym "MAL" indicates so.<br /><br />So why is my use of the word "ranting" wrong?Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-64167197269992635252014-07-04T09:02:29.841-07:002014-07-04T09:02:29.841-07:00Erp,
That's a very good question. But that af...Erp,<br /><br />That's a very good question. But that affimation was not done by me, it was AOG's. Maybe he can answer it.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-28926499525803823012014-07-04T09:00:04.747-07:002014-07-04T09:00:04.747-07:00To say you are ranting is somehow offensive? I'...To say you are ranting is somehow offensive? I'll take notice.<br /><br />There is at least one person with military experience, in particular with airstrike experience, that looks to disagree with you on that point. <br /><br />I do not think I am qualified enough to judge all the possible military maneuvers happening in a continued Vietnam war. But I do believe not even the American Right wanted to foot that bill anyway. I may be wrong, sure, I am no American neither lived those times, contrary to you.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08921327103613284595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-47512877172254399962014-07-04T08:59:20.795-07:002014-07-04T08:59:20.795-07:00Clovis, I don't understand this kind of thinki...Clovis, I don't understand this kind of thinking.<br /><br /><i>My whole point is that, like South Korea, South Vietnam would have in time become self sufficient and net benefit to the USA.</i><br /><br />Why do you think South Korea and/or Vietnam would any way be net benefits to the USA no matter what their governments?erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09826044412670324694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5806884.post-51763694211220061962014-07-04T08:01:12.500-07:002014-07-04T08:01:12.500-07:00so you are not talking about replacing weapons onl...<i>so you are not talking about replacing weapons only, but boots on the ground all over again</i><br /><br />No. As I wrote earlier, primarily airstrikes and logistical support were what should have been provided and weren't.<br /><br /><i>[...] your ranting [...]</i><br /><br />By which I presume you mean "disagreeing with me". When you're reduced to sputtering ad hominems, my work is done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com